So I will call the Village of Croton on Hudson planning board meeting for Tuesday,
• 11/04/2025
• to order.
• The first
• item on the agenda is an old business item.
• Sean Fuller, the grand, 130 Grand Street, final signage approval.
• it's
• kind of sign application, but there's two, like, flower beds right in front of the building there, right and left, that in the times I've passed by, they've got
• promotions for
• Second.
• Sean,
• like the changes
• that were made to
• work with the.
• I think it looks beautiful. It's gonna be very, very nice. Steve had a comment about your
• planters in the front of the building, and we're asking if
we could instead of having sort of, you know, signage in the planters, it it could
• I was interested in putting
• so the color that we have there is called the hague blue,
• the dark blue that goes up there.
• I wanted to
• on the brick
• if don't know if we have a picture of the facade. I was trying to put one together shortly.
• I wanted to put two small marquees
• above the windows,
• and they would be the color of hag blue. So it'd be a rectangle.
• And on those marquees, we we we would have
• yeah. So see above the window, the brick area. Yeah.
• Not
• on either side
• that would be the color blue,
• and it would just have lettering
• that we'd stick on white lettering, almost like a church sign
• in the country.
• And it would just simply say what was happening on Friday
• or Saturday or Monday.
My my sense is that that would constitute additional signage that would need approval.
Right. So I think you'd have to put a little package together and come back to us. Could could I do that still under the auspices of my initial investment in the signage committee,
• or would I have to reapply?
• Okay.
• I wanted to thank you for
• for already
• providing the place as a community resource, which is something that we had, you know, talked about. We're excited about. But I you're the the grand is hosting a talent show
• teenagers from the high school on Sunday. My daughter is in it. So so already, the the doors are open for the community.
So you wanna tell us about what you have planned here, or are we already
• Will
• it be white or translucent?
• It'll be white. It's just the the mock up window sort of texture that she chose.
• So it makes it a little hard to see, but it's
• gonna be white vinyl. So it'll stand out pretty well. It's not it's not taking more than the
• square footage of the window space that it's supposed to.
• Are you are you meant to be able to see inside the store? I mean, we're gonna I mean, we have blinds. We don't want people to, you know, but, I you'll be able to see inside.
• That's not, like, what the real glass looks like. She just put that up. So it'll be, like, fogged glass?
• No. No. It's just this is just her choice of rendering. It's just clear window
• Oh. With white vinyl lettering. So it's just the writing?
• Yeah. It'll be a vinyl. Constitutes your signage. Yeah. It'll be a vinyl. Yeah. That's the signage.
Is that clear to you guys? Yeah. No. I mean, I think the reason we're asking the question is because you're only allowed to have signage that covers a certain percentage of the window itself.
This almost looked like there was some sort of opaque covering over Oh, no. No. It's just, you know, she said, hey. Let's render glass instead of just a a
• very odd looking, you know, vertical shades in the window kinda.
So we haven't we haven't sent this. This has not gone to it has gone, and they approved it. Okay.
• and what we're actually looking at is
• lettering in white vinyl stickers
• that
• is at the bottom of the two side windows and up on the door Yeah. That constitutes the application for the signage. Okay.
• with white letter.
That would would be better. Yeah. Understand it. That's all. Because that doesn't look right, but this sounds right. Okay.
• Alright.
• for 125
• Grand Street.
• So I think it's final signage Final signage approval.
• Can't wait to see it.
• Excellent. Good luck.
• Bye. See you. Alright.
• Moving along, the next item on the agenda is a new business item, seventy three Melrose
• LLC minor site plan approval for for a new single family home at 73 Melrose Avenue.
• This application was before us previously
• under a different
• ownership.
• Right? Butch?
• Should
• I start? Yes, please. I am here before you this evening
• seeking approval for a minor site plan.
• Some of this is new to me since the last time I've
• been here.
• Minor site plan, excavation
• and fill permit,
• storm water pollution prevention plan,
• which is being prepared
• at this very moment after your
• letter.
• From where
• the pollution
• approved.
• I purchased the lot.
• I
• put one of my houses on it,
• made some changes,
• reduced the impervious surface,
• raised it a little bit. Footprint is pretty close to the same.
• garage
• access and location.
• really putting the driveway and parking area in the front instead of
• having all that pavement go around the back
• and then using up the backyard
• They fit in well with the neighborhood.
• I don't do modular. Can you just back up for a second? Yes. We did approve a previous building.
Yes. And that that I believe was gonna be modular. It was gonna be modular. And this How did how did it come about that that you're not
• say, the applicants behind this project?
• and decided to sell the property. I had been interested in the project as a whole,
• and I wanted the house and the lawn.
• And
• they ended up getting it, and then for whatever reason, decided
• to sell the property, so I purchased it.
• did get a memo from our our new
• village engineer
• Yes. Talking about the
• changes and
• especially with regard to the, as you said, the storm water calculations,
• there
• wouldn't be a net increase in runoff
• for a hundred year storm.
• And then that
• plan shows two cars in the driveway, but those cars
• encroach upon the public right of way.
• And
• so there
• was some research done that we have
• hard to avoid
• with a 15 foot front yard setback.
• And
• with the angle and the easement,
• I couldn't push the house back any further
• and still maintain
• the size footprint I would need to get the square footage I would need need to make the project work.
• I spoke to the neighbors
• spoke to the neighbor across the street,
• and getting the car off the street, it's very tight down. It just it just ends. Right. So having that parking space
• and having some extra pavement there
• would allow people
• at least a little bit more room to turn around when they get down.
• Not saying that
• my customers, whoever they may be, would love people turning around in their driveway, but it gives you a little bit more wiggle room instead of the way it is now.
• So it's
• It is a tight spot, and the and the elevation goes straight up into the school. And in the process
• of doing the the parking area, doing the curb,
• doing my apron,
• I'm kinda hoping to clean up that whole area maybe with a little bit of, you know, flare on my apron
• just to give us all a little bit more room
• and to get two cars off the street. So instead of because, you know, someone's gonna park there, and the person across the street is gonna park in front of their house.
• And when someone comes down, there's gonna be no place to turn them.
• At least if all if all my cars are off the street or all my customers' cars, they're off the street. There's a little bit extra room.
• leaving just one additional car, there's not enough room on the driveway for the one car that encroaches?
• I'm not exactly positive on what the
• the village easement varies.
• Some some lots, it's five feet. Some lots, it goes up to eight.
• But I think his rendering of the car is not really accurate.
• So because from the property line right away. From the property line, we have 15 feet.
• I mean, I think my Toyota Tacoma is 12.
• That's a six foot bed. I mean, I think most most cars,
• not that much, would stick into the well,
• I guess, maybe at that point of the road, the easement's wider than most.
So on this drawing, this shows that show two cars side by side Yes. One side by Yes. And that the one that say outlined in pink
what is that supposed to represent? That looks like a stone. Oh, that's that's just my riprap. That's my tracking pad for construction to clean my trucks before I pull out.
• So that's So that'll all be construction.
That's just during construction. Yeah. And then it and then it gets becomes an asphalt driveway after the construction. Oh, that'll be asphalt. It gets cleared off. And then the
line, is that the the thick black line? Is the is my property line. So I would assume
• from that to the street would all be village.
And like I said, depending the size of the car, three or four feet looks like. And different different streets have different
• Some are, you know, small,
• you know, four feet. Some are as big as 10 feet.
• It's
• Yeah. It's at the end of this, I'd be more concerned if I was on, say,
• like, in Elmore or someplace where my dad used to live and and whereas you would have to walk out into the street to get around the car.
• Like, you would need maybe a a suburban,
• you know, to to stick all the way out and block the sidewalk.
• Being at at the dead end, I didn't see it as a problem. Really,
• I had never heard it before.
• It and and
• but I can understand it. It's
I don't know if there was a sidewalk there, it didn't have an issue since the very end of the day. Do the kids use that as a cut through to to PVC? I don't I don't see it because it's very steep.
And I have a picture of the end of the street. It goes down, and it goes straight up. Landscape. And then there's and then there's a wall
• on, you know, the wall of the school. They use a different place. Thank you, Rita. When I when I built on Thompson,
• Thompson was a whole different ballgame. Right. I did this the exact same lot on Thompson,
• and that was a full access
• kids that I had to be there every morning, every afternoon to make sure they
• got out they got in
• without
• the trucks and the guys and all that.
• But this is I haven't seen anybody there because it's very steep.
• parallel to the house, is there enough room for a fire truck to pull up to the end?
With my two cars off the street, yes. K. If I had one off street parked well, if I had two, one being the garage
• and one being the driveway,
• and my third car was on the street,
• and the neighbor across the street had his second or third car on the street, it would be very narrow.
• He could still get down because it's a wide road, but it just ends.
• And I have I mean, I have some pictures if you wanna see it. I can I don't have any, but I can
• Okay?
• But it's
• That's okay, coach. You sure? I think we have an idea. Yeah. It's I I I know I've been down there several times. Right. So
You I think my son had to go down and apologize to the lady next door one one time because he offended her in some kind of way.
• That was the last time I remember being
• else you have for me?
• elevation
• rendering of the ex exterior of the building and identified
• your proposed
• materials,
• which look very familiar to some
• of the things that we've seen you do around town.
• I think it fits well in the neighborhood.
• I I just couldn't bear to do another white and black house. I I just couldn't do it. Wow. So I Variety is, you know, a good thing. Yeah. I I know they had proposed doing one and and but I just I couldn't do another.
• put that as a condition of approval on the resume. Did I mention have that here? We met today after after and
• Ralph is it's in process right now.
• So as as soon soon as you can get it to me,
we'll email it. It's it's already been outlined as to what's being proposed. I think that
• the engineer was asking for backup calculations for that, and those are
• So it's it's
• not as much off of that that I've seen.
• There's quite a bit from the lawns
• of the neighbors that run to the back.
• I don't see much come off the hill. We put a good swale in there, so it should keep it going,
• you know, where it goes where it goes now.
• I've spoken to the neighbor,
• and they're great. We ran, you know, the sewer through the easement
• right away while Dan was still here.
• He gave us a sewer tap, and we did that to get it on my property while we could still grow grass so I wouldn't have to bother them. They wouldn't have to look at mud all winter.
• There was a shed back there. We got rid of that right away and cleaned the lot of it. No one had ever cut the grass since the the time it was purchased,
• so it was a waste high. So we went in and cut the grass and cleaned it all up and took care of all that stuff so everybody,
• you know, started out a good,
• you know, on good terms.
• The neighbor next door had asked
• if I'd be willing to put up a fence
• down the edge of the driveway. So if you notice on the edge of their driveway, which is the property line,
• looking at it from the street, it's the left side.
• There's a thing there for a possible future fence.
• She has young children. My customers are usually a young family with young kids considering that's their driveway right there. It's something they might want.
• It complies with the village code, not passing the front of the house.
• I don't
• I didn't commit to it until
• I speak with whoever purchases my house. Some people don't want them.
• Some people would rather have landscaping,
• but we're we're
• on good terms.
• That's why that's there.
• the
• school, or is there enough trees that exist there that you're not concerned about that? It's pretty thick. I haven't seen it with the leaves off. Right.
• I'm trying to set my house up
• to have the majority
• on the left side again because that's the sunny side,
• and the hill is really very steep. So when you look out that side, all you see is hillside.
• So the the school is so much higher. Right.
• I don't think we're gonna get much from that. There is a streetlight in the street right in front that lights up the dead end.
• So I think most of the brightness will come from that.
• We're in the section of the school
• that isn't the field or the drop off. We're really kinda on that dead zone.
• If you,
• you know, you see where we are. We're
• we're beyond the ball fields. Experience.
• pretty thick there. Considering
• how tall the house is, I don't know what we'd get to grow.
• If we were gonna run over by this or something, they need too much sun.
• To get any kind of height, we'd need to go onto the school property. I don't think you need it judging from the photo that it's Right. I mean, if you look at the 36 feet difference between
• Yeah. Here and Yeah. I don't know if they're one or two foot contours, but it's it's Right. Okay.
• High Ridge is 20 feet below ground level.
• How tall is your building? The
• to your point, we
• should have an official height on the elevation.
• Let's see if you did it.
• can't see how it would have exceeded the 35.
Definitely doesn't exceed the 35, but I can get you an exact number. I think if you just incorporate it into the submission
• Yeah. I do. I just just a question for the engineer.
• you mentioned that you'd like to see some additional calculations about stormwater
• runoff. Is that to
• the calculations you wanna show do not with the with the smaller drywall chambers
• don't exceed runoff
• from a 100 years ago. Yeah.
• I
• was wondering before you do Okay. If I could bring something up Yes. Which is new to me.
• Local law.
• Two thirty Dash 73,
• reservation of parkland.
• Site development plans, recreation facilities.
• So the only reason I bring it up is because it seems
• to fall
• under when required by the planning board.
• Planning board shall determine whether a proper case exists for requiring
• such
• reservations.
• Such determination
• shall shall
• include
• elevation of present and anticipated
• future needs for park and recreation facilities
• based on project
• projected
• population growth.
• I noticed in my resolution
• that
• this house is considered
• to contribute to population growth.
• It would be
• paragraphs
• aren't numbered, but it's on the front page of the draft resolution.
• Whereas
• The planning board
• finds that the development of this site will contribute to population
• growth in the village Right. And that no suitable land
• is available for a park.
• the last rendition of this plan,
• it was included,
• that recreation fee. Right.
• And I don't know that anything's changed substantially
• in this
• original application to this one.
• so
• on the fee sheet,
• I see that the fee
• is
• $12,000.
And I think that is the fee that is applied to a a new house that's contributing contributing to to growth growth in in the the village. Village,
• and And and that was approved. But it's not really
• it's not really within our
• purview to
• deal with that fee for
• I don't think for something like like this application.
• We have had some latitude with some of the ADU applications in the past where it there was case made that either they had recreation
• ability or they had or they weren't necessarily contributing
• to the growth of the village. But the village board is the one who established
• that free schedule.
• seems to give quite a bit of latitude to the planning board,
• and I'm glad you bring up the ADUs.
• It appears to me
• that
• construction
• of this house in that spot
• is
• really goes along with
• what the Harman Subdivision
• was designed for.
• I mean, there were lots there. This is this is two and three or this is three and four out of one, two, three, four lots.
• The ADUs,
• I mean, this is this is based on
• anticipated
• future needs
• or projected
• population
• growth.
• I see the projected growth and the anticipated
• future needs
• is caused by
• the rezoning
• to allow 50 ADUs
• a year
• and
• a number
• of
• large
• multiunit
• buildings,
• a lot of which
• Maple Commons being one. And I'm not passing judgment on any of them. Right or wrong,
• I'm just speaking on my own behalf.
• If the code states
• that if
• they're affordable housing,
• their words, not me,
• should be below market rate.
• Affordable housing
• is
• doesn't
• doesn't get a fee. They get a waiver of the fee.
• So making comments.
• Yes, they gave a little tiny club
• with four benches,
• and the towns were cured of flock.
• They had 33
• units, which consisted of 66
• bedrooms
• and paid no for it.
• So since it's I bring up Parking Lot A.
• I know it's not approved,
• but because we're looking at future and projected,
• it has to come into conversation.
• So
• going by the numbers of Maple County, 33
• units turned into 66
• apartments
• or 66
• bedrooms.
• 100
• units in Parking Lot A could be two two hundred bedrooms,
• 100%
• affordable.
• So for 200 bedrooms, they would pay zero
• fee.
• But me, one
• four bedroom house
• being built in the scope that Harman was designed for
• pays a $12,000
• fee.
• For me,
• it seems
• it's out of scale. It's excessive.
• And,
• I mean,
• to pick out a four bedroom house, it's arbitrary.
• Like, I'm I'm paying into a future thing that I take no part in. I don't receive anything from.
• We were sold a bill of goods
• that this was gonna be beneficial
• to the small businesses
• of the village,
• and it's not. I feel punished
• by it. I'm in I'm being imposed a fee because
• this future population
• growth from all this rezoning
• is gonna tax
• our open space and parking.
• That's the way I see it. I mean, from 2011
• till now,
• I've come here 15 times.
• From just just
• from
• 2023
• to 2025.
• 2023,
• the fee to stand before you wonderful people
• was $750.
• The fee today was a thousand 50. That's a 40%
• increase
• in two years
• plus the 12,000.
• The building permit.
• Right? So it's a thousand 50 to come here for that.
• It's 4,000 now for a water tap. It's 4,000 for a sewer tap. It's $7,199
• for a building permit for a 2,400
• square foot house.
• $12,000
• on top of that.
• I'm into this for $28,000
• in permits and fees
• before I post bonds that'll held for at least a year.
• That's over $11
• a square foot from my house.
• That's $28,000
• off the top before I even start.
• It's not it's not
• gripe. Mhmm. But you're griping honestly to the wrong people. Well, I just want we don't control those feelings, and we don't set them.
• And and I think that, you know, there's another forum
• that meets in this very room
• that would be more appropriate for your argument. And I, you know,
• I I sympathize with that. I don't think it's necessarily
• where we should be, but that's what the And I just powers that be have set the feast to be. Absolutely
• any of like I'm saying, I'm not judging at all any of the projects,
• any of the people in this room, or any of the things.
• Very good friends with Leonard as well. I mean, I
• I thought if if you say 12,000 is the fee, 12,000 is it is, and it it won't come up again. It's just the way it is. I just felt I hear you. And I felt for the record it needed to be said.
• Understood. And
• it's
• I I'm glad I said it, and I'm
• comfortable with my project. I'm I'm very glad that you were able to say it.
• I think it was said very respectfully, we appreciate it. I really and I mean it with all respect. I mean, I know how much you guys give of your time. My father was on the zoning board of appeals for twenty years,
• and for ten of those years, he was the chairman.
• And I know what he gives and the time I know what he gave and the time he gave.
• And I I've seen you. I came back to the village when he started to dig six in 2011.
• My first house was built here
• in 1985.
• This is my fortieth year building in the village.
• So
• I appreciate every minute you've given to me. So I don't mean it with any disrespect. It's not taking that. And as I told Len, we had the discussion. I said, I love the village. If someone came to me and said the village needs $12,000,
• I'd write them a check. It's not about that. It's not about the monsters. I just found that these increases in fees
• coincide with the rezoning of the village.
• And
• to me,
• it raises a red flag
• based on what what we were doing or what I was doing. I'm a small it doesn't get any smaller than me. I'm the smallest of the small business. I'm
• I'm in it. So
• but, again, hope I didn't offend anybody,
• and I appreciate your time. Okay.
• mean, I don't I don't I don't think we I
• and
• and,
• believe me, I'm
embarking on building a house myself. I know. And I'm gonna be up against all of those situations.
• the cost of the building permit is based on the cost of construction.
• Right. Cost of construction during COVID goes up 50 percent.
• I can't
• maybe the building permit should be based on square footage. But, again, who rewrites the code? I'm
• not sticking around that much longer in this to
to change policy. I just figured I'd bring it. Understood. You know, just one comment about this. Down the road, it might be interesting to look at how the fees here compare to other communities in Westchester just for our own education. I
you want me to tell you? I don't wanna get into it now. I said down the road, very specifically I went I went I researched all of our neighbors.
• Good to know. But, again,
• it's
• I think it's another, you know, it's another form that that would be appropriate to speak about that.
• honestly.
• You know? I think I'm not sure that those
• fees are where they should be either, but they're they're not something that we set.
• especially in the r eight five
• because
• the
• Again, I don't think we're gonna No. I understand. Beating a dead horse. I know. It's there's people behind me. Yes. Yeah. It's it's a long night, and you review
• things for fifteen days now, which is a whole another subject we won't talk about.
• Thank you.
• 73
• Melrose Avenue
• pending on
• water engineering or the engineering department's review
• and
• also
• Hope to see all of you soon.
• Next item,
• mister Robinson, Mac,
• building envelope modification,
• 8 Newton Court.
• Hey, guys.
• I'm Justin Caker, architect with Highlands Architecture.
• This is Matt Robinson, the owner of the 8th Unit Court.
• Back in May,
• there was a fire. Matt can talk a little bit about
• a new
• single family dwelling
• that's to rest on the
• existing foundation.
• We met with the village engineers
• a couple of times, We talked about the building limit lines
• that were set for
• the Baltic Estates
• and they said there's no setbacks on this development that are all done with building limit lines.
• So we purchased
• CAD files from
• civil engineer of record,
• master Monaco master Monaco in Proton,
• And we used his
• CAD files to accurately
• lay out where the house is and where the building limit lines are.
• That drawing that you see there is SP one, which is our plot plan.
• It's color coordinated,
• and it shows that dashed line,
• which is the building limit lines.
• And we were told by Dan O'Connor, Ron Wegner,
• don't go outside the building limit lines.
• the engineer on this explaining some of that to us
• as well as
• the issue with the gazebo in the front yard
• that was not built by the Robinson's
• that purchased it, I believe, with the gazebo when but it was never. Yes.
• He permitted it to be there.
• So
• as a separate
• But, you know, the gazebo would just have to move however the gazebo wants to deal with that. And
I'll pursue that separately. I'm gonna go to the zoning board. I spoke to Ron about it. That
• process
• will be done before
• the house.
• and maybe
you could just tell us a little bit about what you're proposing Sure. I have and colors. I have samples with me if you'd like to see it in the Sure. Box. I can pass them around, but we we
• Yes. For the most part, they are.
• the garage because it was the car that started the fire in the garage.
• fire rated doors, of course, between the garage and the house, which is when I met with the
• village engineer, Dan O'Connor,
• that was one of the things he really appreciated was the the existing
• rated door
• from the kitchen to the garage really
• did its job.
As the the fire started from the car in the garage. Yeah. I remember seeing pictures at the time of fire. You know? I've seen his pictures. It looked like the fire department had saved it. You know, the the garage definitely was was damaged, but I guess it must have been water damage throughout the rest of the house. Water damage smoke. Yeah. When we got in to measure, which is only a couple of weeks after, that whole downstairs
• Yes.
The attic, out the far side of the house, bursts the attic floor to the 2nd Floor that fell basically
• on top of each other.
• So
• the garage and the left side of the house and the entire top was really damaged. You wanted to keep a little piece in the corner on the far left, you probably could have. But at that point, it made sense.
• There was a recall on the car two days later. Mhmm. So if you own a 2022
• to 2024 Audi q five, you should go get it fixed.
• 200,000 cars, if we recall, today out of the twelfth mile.
• I live in the garage. She went shopping. She
went out. So my wife went to the store, got groceries, came home, brought the groceries into the house,
• went back out to close the hatch for the for the car, and the smoke was already over
• the entire garage. And
• she slammed the door, came around the house, and the fire was kind of already
• Was something turned overheated and looked like So then what happens there's on the engine plate, there's these bolts that over time
• in every twenty twenty two, twenty twenty four,
• loosen and oil seeps down onto the engine plate over time, right,
• and is potentially.
• Why it happened after,
• you know,
• mile and a half drive makes no sense,
• especially when the night before she went out and picked up my son 30
• miles away.
• So,
• thankfully, it didn't happen the night before 01:30 when she picked it up. Right.
• Nice. Yeah.
• It
• was crazy. My wife still
• my wife was
• and she was in smoke, so she has.
• And
• my son was woken up, so he ran out of the house with nothing.
• And it was my daughter was leaving from Madrid the next day for an eight week internship.
• She lost everything she owned, including her phone and her laptop. So we had to buy every it was all packed. Her packed bags were in the room above the garage.
• So literally
• in twelve hours, we got a new passport, new phone, new laptop,
• shockingly,
• next day, literally the next day.
• Resilience of kids.
• I mean, yes,
• to be 18.
Yeah. That's that's fine. I'm just saying we do have a draft resolution, but that, I believe, is the interaction
• gonna ask about the metal roof. Where would that be? Where would you be using those materials?
• Just at the front porch.
• Yeah. I don't know where it would be. Yeah.
• It wasn't.
• Yeah.
• No. I just well, I I've been approached. Our own neighborhood has been approached, and
• it's not the plans.
• there it needs to be
• with the new code, we have to have solar ready.
• So what we what we
• need to approve is the expansion of the lots building envelope for the purpose of rebuilding
• area
• with an expansion to the front porch and the rear deck.
• Thoughts about the resolution or comments?
• Seconded.
• Seconded? Okay. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Good
• luck, guys. Thank
• you. Very nice presentation. Beautiful drawings. Thank you very much. Thank you.
• So
• minutes from ten seven.
• You have the? Yeah. Oh. Oh,
• how how would it come into play. Right? So say,
• I can't make the next meeting.
• May or may not know this two weeks in advance or a month in advance or days in advance.
• We've always in the past, if somebody's missed a meeting, we've had four people that could carry on
• or at least three or at least three, and those people
• presumably
• have
• maybe
• had an earlier this this is an item agenda item that's come around twice or something. So they've got some past experience in it,
• and that's beneficial as opposed to bringing somebody new for
• some items that's has some some
• background that they may or may not have have
• would know about.
• We would be up in this case, in this in this example, this model, we'd be up to the chair and say, yeah. We need a fifth or not. I guess it's optional.
• And
• I think in some cases,
• if it's, you know, brand new agenda items
• and there's there's some sense that that new that alternate
• could get up to speed quickly,
• you know, that fills out the bench if that's mandatory.
• That's really, really important.
• Otherwise, we would we would function quite well And
• but there could be instances too where the chair says, you know what? This is really complicated stuff. We've been at this for several meetings now.
• I think the four people or three people that we have on the case thus far.
• Though,
• you know, it does kinda put the the chair in a bit of a a tough position.
It's we just carry on with what we got. We've never been in a position where we haven't had a quorum.
• Hasn't been an issue.
were in a quandary. It's just like, how did this come about? What was the context? Why are we doing this?
• Was the exact same discussion that that we're gonna get interesting.
• But I think where they left it was was kind of that they needed more information.
• The CVA.
• They were what do say? They had many same questions we had. So,
• you know, I guess,
• one hand,
• it does give
• this alternate person a taste
• for the playing board. We don't know if this alternate person how engaged this person's gonna be, if they're gonna be coming to every single meeting, whether they're
• called to to serve or not.
• And will they be disappointed if there comes a time where somebody's absent and we say, yeah. You know what?
Well, it's also the opposite. Can have to where let's say the chair of the group decided they need the fifth person who's missing. So they bring in the.
• Yep. And they're in for a meeting with the two board. And then the full time member comes back,
• and now that person has to step down.
• I'm
• not sure that's fair to the applicant in a way because now you have somebody
• new getting I mean, hopefully, they read the minutes and they get up to speed on the application, application, but I just think that creates a certain amount of
small amount of chaos for the group and for the applicant. If I may say, I've I've never heard this kind of discussion about
• alternate member for a planning board. Never.
• It's
• typical more typical than not, I think, to have an alternate provided.
• In in the the circumstance you're mentioning,
• if you go with four,
• what do you do if there's a tie?
• You know? And I've seen communities,
• you know, where there's only been three
• members, and the board will say,
• do you do you wanna go with three members, or do you wanna
• adjourn the application to the next meeting? I think as
• long as the alternates understand
• their role, I think you can get past that issue of it being
• fair to the to the alternate.
• And I've seen other situations where,
• you know, it's sort of a teaching thing and and the alternates
• eventually
• move up. And I've I've seen that when they become full full members of the planning board when somebody retires or moves. I've
• I've never encountered, like, opposition to an ultimate, but that's just my experience. And it's and it
• doesn't I'm not saying how many privileges it happens in it. Or the crooked end. Yeah. No. I I can't
• Well, I I can't speak to that. But, you know think that, you know, in contrary to
what what you heard from the planning board, I mean, from the zoning board,
• my experience has not been that, but they, I think,
• often are in this situation
• where they don't have five members.
• Passes,
• you know, three people are here and two people vote for it and one person votes. It still passes in that in your scenario.
• What's that? You need you need three votes
• of the member.
For the zoning board, if you need for planning board. To the planning board? Okay.
So I'm wrong then. No. Yeah. I mean, I didn't mean to put it that way. That's fine.
• But, like,
I've been here a long time, and I don't remember it being an issue ever.
• or or from
• from Karen's correction of what Len said before is that they wouldn't be sitting up here unless they were voting. Correct. Right.
• It's just that we've we've spent, like, a couple of meetings so far debating this.
• Assuming there's gonna be some moment where it comes into play.
• And
• it it hasn't been ten years or so that I've affiliated with. So
• we can plan for every inevitability,
• but I I just
• So maybe that's our response.
• an agreement.
Don't have I don't have strong feelings one way or another, but I'm I'm happy to go with with your lead there that I I don't see the need for it either, but I don't have a problem with it as well. My main question is who would want that job, actually. Sounds like a sucky job. It does. Sit out there and
• I
I can go to the playground, and I'll get to play with the other two children. Alright.
Thank you. But before we do the minutes because sometimes we run afterwards Yeah. Just a quick question. We were trying to find a date for just tell his name Adam Adam Walsh. For a train of some kind.
• So the $18.03 1 for
• my glasses?
• Yes. And
• then we might switch over to
• the second and fourth
watched this? Yes. Of course. Oh my god. Funny. The first season's better than the second season. I think so too.
• Alright. Anybody have anything on the minutes?
• I have a little. Okay.
• First
• second paragraph.
• I read the first sentence
• a bunch of times and thought it could be clarified, and I to
• make just make it more clear what you meant. And I think
• what it's saying is it was mentioned that there is a substantial difference in grade
• between the handicapped entrance and the street. Is that is that what it's saying? Yes. Okay. So let's just make those Probably a little better. Those changes. Yeah. It was mentioned there's a substantial difference in grade
• between
• the handicapped entrance and the street.